Curse

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 09, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Give me Naga, and GW2 has a guaranteed sale. Just once, I'd like an MMORPG wiht reptiles.

The Naga have all classes; they have towns; their civilization was destroyed by the Jade Wind, but they're making a come-back in Factions. So they make a perfect race to add with the first "Cantha" expansion to GW2.

Centaurs, krait... anything but dull, boring humans and rehashed elves.

Bryant Again · Jun 09, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I think one of the EQ's had a reptilian race...

Alicendre · Jun 09, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

The Naga have all classes; they have towns; their civilization was destroyed by the Jade Wind, but they're making a come-back in Factions. So they make a perfect race to add with the first "Cantha" expansion to GW2.

Problem.
In GW2, Cantha's Emperor is way worse than Kisu, and will "remove" all non-Humans from Cantha, thus including Nagas.
It would not surprise me that those who would not flee would get killed, and it would be quite hard to build a civilisation from the remains of their remains...

Lady Syve · Jun 09, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

Problem.
In GW2, Cantha's Emperor is way worse than Kisu, and will "remove" all non-Humans from Cantha, thus including Nagas.
It would not surprise me that those who would not flee would get killed, and it would be quite hard to build a civilisation from the remains of their remains...

Of course, Anet could always make it so the Nagas and Tengus find some sort of hidden refuge in the far reaches of the Canthan Empire. Or they could escape to other continents such as Tyria. Pretty much anything is possible when you're dealing with a made up world.

Back to the topic at hand, I've never been very fond of Tengus (barely even noticed the Nagas lol). They're pretty ugly, in my opinion, and just never seemed very interesting. The centaurs could be fun though. I certainly like them a whole lot more than the bird and snake people.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jun 09, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

sadly, guildwars had awsome races that were already in existance why did we have to add bad re hash's of any other MMO as far as creatures go.
Norn=Humanoid things that are strong
Asuran=Gnomes anyone, albiet much more irratating
Sylva=Why elves.

look at what guildwars had for awsome races already

charr
mursatt
oni
naga
centuar
undead

all those could have made some fun playable classes.
instead of lame ripoffs of any other MMO

Lady Syve · Jun 09, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

sadly, guildwars had awsome races that were already in existance why did we have to add bad re hash's of any other MMO as far as creatures go.
Norn=Humanoid things that are strong
Asuran=Gnomes anyone, albiet much more irratating
Sylva=Why elves.

look at what guildwars had for awsome races already

charr
mursatt
oni
naga
centuar
undead

all those could have made some fun playable classes.
instead of lame ripoffs of any other MMO

By now, you have to realize that all creatures stem from/are inspired by other sources. There is no such thing as a purely original creature anymore. All the other MMO's got their creature ideas from other games, pieces of literature, myth, and legend. The Oni, Naga, Centaur, and Undead are very ancient ideas that originated hundreds of years ago. The Charr and Mursaat aren't exactly the epitomes of originality either. Both stem from the common "tibal"/"anthropomorphic" and "sorcerer"/"alien" ideas with a few original touches. The Norn, Asura, and Sylvari are not automatically bad races just because they were inspired by themes that have been used in hundreds of thousands of other fantasy related media.

Please don't accuse any game of "rehashing ideas" or "ripping off" of other sources until you look at the bigger picture. Besides, if a game rips off another game, the results are usually a lot more obvious than a few common themes.

Phoenix Tears · Jun 09, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

guys, some of you really have ZERO fantasy I must say.

Only because some creatures in a prequel don't have their own language, doesn't mean automatically, that they also won't have one in GW2.

GW2 players over freaking 200 years AFTER GW1. In 200+ Years species can EVOLVE god damn it, this high grade of Unimaginativeness of Guru's people is getting really surprising and giving me more and more the imagination, how much people have must have only vacuums in their heads, when it goes about beign creative lol

in 200+ years, creatures can develop own languages, can become far more intelligent, can build small to bigger civilizations ect and can make an evolutionary turn around of 180°.

What do you believe, what we humans were, at the year 1758, so 250 Years of the Now in the past huh? Do you think, we had at that time stuff, like Cars, Electricity, TV, Airplanes, ect.
Don't do so, as if Evolution would never happen >.<

A Scene with a Krait Player in GW2 would look then more like this:

Human meets Krait:
- Krait Player say something, but Human Player doesn't understand 1 word.
- Human goes study the Language of the Krait, if possible, starting to progress to learn the ability to understand Krait by learnign their Language or vice versa, due to trying to talk much with Human Players or standing around near Humans, that are talking and hearing their Words, the Krait Player's Character starts to understand the other language slowly more and more, until the Grade is reached, that the player can communicate with the other Race, enabling it the Krait Player to go study in this case the human Language to learn in the last step the other language perfectly, like Humans learn it, through Books and Teachings.

- Krait and Human meet again, either 1 has learned to understand the others language or in best case, both have learn in the meanwhile, to understand each other , resulting in normal communications

- Case B:
Krait and Human meet, don't understand each other, Centaur comes in, that surprisingly understands both and is willing to interpret them.

You want to understand an other race, then go learn their language, so easy is that. Learning other languages belongs to receiving new personal abilities of a character and so can be seen as a RPG Feature about Skills.
But an other point now ^^
****
****

About the Emperor of GW2's Cantha:

Uhm, I think its no problem to add other races to Cantha, even if the new Emperor of Cantha acts like Hitler, and thats my view of it as a German, but especially this is it, what will give the lore then the aspect of "WAR" imo

Nagas and whatever, fighting versus the Canthan Empire for their Right to Live in Cantha (World War Scenario XD with the Canthan Empire as Nazi-Germany, letting the players then decide, if you are for or against the Empire)

And as said, only because Elfs ect. don't exist yetthe lore of GW, doesn't automatically mean, that they can't be added with the new lore of GW2, especially due to the fact, that we really have seen only yet like 30% or far lesser of the games world, cause of 4/5 of it being unexplorable -.-, thats a huge part of the world, where Elfs, fairies ect can haven their hidden from the Humans isolated civilizations.

Due of being isolated from the rest of the world, the mankind can't naturally know, that those races exist and it will be logical and obvious then, that no lore can exist about them yet. Lore can only exists about something, when its known to the game's world and its creatures, that play in it.

You can't know something simple, what you have never seen in your life before. I also can't know, what X tastes like, when I've never eaten before a X. I think these examples are so self explanatory, that even babies could understand it, if they could read >.>

Aerian_Skybane · Jun 09, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I am looking forward to being a Norn Mesmer.

Team of 12 year olds: "Oh sweet we have a Norn Marauder on the team lets go"

Me: "No wait I am not a Marau..."

*Enters world*

Team leader of 12 year olds: "WTF ARE YUO DOING YOU ARE NORN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A WARRIOR"

*casts Silence on Team Leader of 12 year olds*
*Doesn't work on teammates, choose a proper target*

Me: "Damnit"

Seriously though, I think they will actually be fairly inventive with the race stats, kind of a fluidity rather than a static ability or skill. Maybe a resistance system, or enhanced statistics in certain areas, weakness in others, but not a blunt NORN ARE +10 Strength etc etc.

Perhaps, for example, the Norn have a constitutional bonus, and inherently have more HP, stamina, whatever INITIALLY. They can hone their skills in their racial strength but create a deeper weakness in other theoretical fields perhaps such as tactics. Eventually, one can become over specialized in strength, which could only be accomplished by the Norn, but would be ultimately weak against different specializations. A giant, super strong Norn clearly will lose the ability to be as defensively cohesive for a taste.

And this is only looking at Melee specialist versus melee specialist. I could go on for hours going over theoretical statistical vulnerabilities that could be associated with racial aptitude.

This balance of choosing specialization versus diversity would create an unbelievably dynamic system of race/classes, and be ultimately balanced per class across the races, without losing uniqueness and strategic diversity across the races.

My examples are fairly mundane, but having to physically (well virtually technically speaking...) learn the strengths weakness associated with each race per class is intriguing to me at least. With a proper statistical spread system, a Asuran warrior is not equal in "strength" to a Norn warrior, but will have other advantages that must be properly utilized in order to defeat a Norn warrior. Not merely a "Norn has +10 strength and Asuran has +10 energy, ZOMG Asuran warriors suck" route, but a dynamic accumulation of movement speed, rate of attack, quarters defense, tactical analysis, prowess, etc etc.

I guess the best way to put my complicated theories to a simple statement would be, just because the Norn warrior full specialized in Norn "benefit" compared to an Asuran warrior specialized completely in Asuran "benefit", does not equal the Norn being the better Warrior statistically than the Asuran. On the other hand, being to diversified can breed in an adaptable warrior for both sides, but not utilizing enough of what makes their race special and not having enough strength in certain areas.

Does that make any sense whatsoever???

Lady Syve · Jun 09, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

guys, some of you really have ZERO fantasy I must say.

Only because some creatures in a prequel don't have their own language, doesn't mean automatically, that they also won't have one in GW2.

GW2 players over freaking 200 years AFTER GW1. In 200+ Years species can EVOLVE god damn it, this high grade of Unimaginativeness of Guru's people is getting really surprising and giving me more and more the imagination, how much people have must have only vacuums in their heads, when it goes about beign creative lol

in 200+ years, creatures can develop own languages, can become far more intelligent, can build small to bigger civilizations ect and can make an evolutionary turn around of 180°.

What do you believe, what we humans were, at the year 1758, so 250 Years of the Now in the past huh? Do you think, we had at that time stuff, like Cars, Electricity, TV, Airplanes, ect.
Don't do so, as if Evolution would never happen >.<

Ugh >_< the Biologist in me cringed at that statement. 250 years (I believe that is the number of years from now to GW2) is certainly not enough for a species to evolve and develop the neural complexity that is required for what we define as culture and language. Such evolution would take hundreds of thousands of years at best, if not a million or two. I take the krait and other tribal creatures we find in GW to be something akin to prehistoric man (Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis or even something before those) with a very simplistic culture and mode of communication. As I'm sure you are well aware, it took humans quite a long time to get where we are today from that point. We could, of course, assume that the krait and other creatures already have the neural capacity for such complicated things (and they really are quite complicated tasks). But if these creatures are already able to do these things, then why aren't they culturally advanced now? It just doesn't seem reasonable for them to remain primitive when they are fully capable to better their way of life.

As for your human example, we did not evolve in the past 3 hundred years. Or at least not to the extent that you seem to suggest that we did. If you think about it, in the 18th century, humans already had a solid basis of culture and language for the past millennium or two. What spurred the great burst of scientific knowledge was a just series of events that allowed knowledge and expertise to be more widespread. The invention of the printing press was a very large part of it.

Of course, this is a fantasy world and things don't necessarily have to work the way it works on this world. I suppose if Anet decided to suddenly give the krait an upgraded brain, then sure, we can have a fully sentient race by the time GW2 comes around.

Kashrlyyk · Jun 09, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

... I think the chance that races are little more than skins with a few racial abilities is in a higher favor than not.

I hope they really have racial differences. I just can´t see an Asura warrior being as strong as a Norn warrior. Maybe let Norns reach 16 strength and only 12 tactics and Asuras the other way around??

Koricen · Jun 09, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

guys, some of you really have ZERO fantasy I must say.

Only because some creatures in a prequel don't have their own language, doesn't mean automatically, that they also won't have one in GW2.

GW2 players over freaking 200 years AFTER GW1. In 200+ Years species can EVOLVE god damn it, this high grade of Unimaginativeness of Guru's people is getting really surprising and giving me more and more the imagination, how much people have must have only vacuums in their heads, when it goes about beign creative lol

in 200+ years, creatures can develop own languages, can become far more intelligent, can build small to bigger civilizations ect and can make an evolutionary turn around of 180°.

What do you believe, what we humans were, at the year 1758, so 250 Years of the Now in the past huh? Do you think, we had at that time stuff, like Cars, Electricity, TV, Airplanes, ect.
Don't do so, as if Evolution would never happen >.<
****
****

About the Emperor of GW2's Cantha:

Uhm, I think its no problem to add other races to Cantha, even if the new Emperor of Cantha acts like Hitler, and thats my view of it as a German, but especially this is it, what will give the lore then the aspect of "WAR" imo

Nagas and whatever, fighting versus the Canthan Empire for their Right to Live in Cantha (World War Scenario XD with the Canthan Empire as Nazi-Germany, letting the players then decide, if you are for or against the Empire)

And as said, only because Elfs ect. don't exist yetthe lore of GW, doesn't automatically mean, that they can't be added with the new lore of GW2, especially due to the fact, that we really have seen only yet like 30% or far lesser of the games world, cause of 4/5 of it being unexplorable -.-, thats a huge part of the world, where Elfs, fairies ect can haven their hidden from the Humans isolated civilizations.

Due of being isolated from the rest of the world, the mankind can't naturally know, that those races exist and it will be logical and obvious then, that no lore can exist about them yet. Lore can only exists about something, when its known to the game's world and its creatures, that play in it.

You can't know something simple, what you have never seen in your life before. I also can't know, what X tastes like, when I've never eaten before a X. I think these examples are so self explanatory, that even babies could understand it, if they could read >.>

It might be easier for the babies to read if you knew how to write properly.

Homo sapiens first emerged at ~200,000 BCE and did not develope anything close to a true language until ~50,000 BCE. And there has been no human evolution in the past 250 years in any way. The utilization of electricity and the developement of cars are cultural advancements, not evolution. It is beyond unlikely in any realm of logic for a species to develope a language in 250 years.

As for the emperor's actions, I think the naga can be counted as out of the running. They already had their ass kicked by the Jade Wind, so I don't think they could put up any sort of opposition to the humans. As for the tengu I won't say it's not possible. Even if all the tengu in Cantha are killed there are still the Caromi, Avicara, and Quetzal. As for the unexplored territory of GW, just because us heroes could not get there doesn't mean no one has gotten there. They couldn't just let us roam the entire world, there had to be boundries. I find it quite unlikely there would be much of the world still in the unknown at the time of GW1. Especially to the Asurans, as they had a vast underground gate network of which we do not know the bounds.

Aerian_Skybane · Jun 09, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Gods you guys are anal retentive.

Phoenix is right when it comes to imagination. Biological correctness aside, you can have some freakin imagination. We are talking about a game where a BRAND NEW SENTIENT RACE has just SPROUTED FROM THE GROUND. Let alone the fact that Dwarfs went extinct by TURNING INTO STONE.

Regardless, I am less interested in speculating a story (I leave that to the pros and look to be entertained, not my job to tell them how it should be), and more interested in debating potential skill/race/class systems (shameless plug to go read my prior post).

Hyper Cutter · Jun 09, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koricen

and the krait and frogs are just tribal animals.

iirc, the frogs are intelligent enough to speak (the Heket definitely are, and I think the Bogroot Growths quests along with the "this is frogman territory!" signs imply at least a little intelligence from their Tyrian cousins)...

I'd like to see Naga as a playable race, personally...

Shadow · Jun 10, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

It'd be very unusual to play as a race that slithers. Especially considering they're adding jumping/sliding/climbing/etc.

4thVariety · Jun 10, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Judging from the "Movement of the World" article, the story of GW2 is very much a story of how the five races united to smite the dragons. That is what it will ultimately boil down to. One big storyline for everybody. If people can choose five races and there is still only one storyline, then they all have to jump on the same train eventually. I don't even think that people will get different starting areas to that effect.

Why design five tutorials? Instead take the first excuse to throw all five races together, most likely the only thing all five races have in common, which is the destruction of the Great Destroyer at the hands of all five (ok, four) races. The five races will celebrate that, come together and that will be the starting area for everyone. Sylvari will simply join because of curiosity or something.

The same is true for expansions. It's even better if the Canthan Emperor is a prick. It gives the players the choice between X amount of maltreated minorities to choose from and take the fight back to the emperor. Again, all players can all start conveniently at the place where the conspiracy finally starts off. In the end I'm sure he is a nice guy that is just possessed or misunderstood. We will shred him to pieces anyway.

I also believe that all races will be able to converse in English at a native level. Although it would be absolutely crazy if each race was to be dubbed in ONLY ONE of the major GW languages. English (Humans), French (Sylvari), German (Norn), Spanish (Charr), Japanese (Asura). If you grind up your faction high enough (or someone in your group has a high rank and can translate), you will get subtitles, otherwise good luck (I guess you were only following the radar dot anyway). If you speak more than one language in RL, then it's your lucky break I guess.

zamial · Jun 10, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

ok the sylvari are tree pod people. they have a borg like mentality in that they share all there knowledge with each other, the have a darkside called the nightmare I believe. the shared knowledge applies to the "pod lings". the tree at the end of eotn is the sylvari's tree. this was all covered in the history lesson in the special edition of pc gamer magazine. there are 5 known races in gw2, there may be more. we have only seen the norn,char,human,asura.

upier · Jun 10, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

You can see an Asuran warrior (Mamp) in Rata Sum. I think the chance that races are little more than skins with a few racial abilities is in a higher favor than not.

That would be sweet!
I was freaking out that something like a mesmer might only be created as an Asura. (Yeah, I know we've seen Charr mesmer also - but those don't count.
FoW female mesmer outfit on a Charr?
I don't think so!

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Tengu would be cool. So would Naga.

That would mean we'd have some sort of a Factions setting.
Which I approve.

Slightly more on-topic:
A Norn ritualist it is for me.
I kinda refuse to play Ursan these days - simply because I don't shapeshift into a bear!
Blessing my ass!

The three-hugging-hippies seem sweet also.

BenjZee · Jun 10, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

Problem.
In GW2, Cantha's Emperor is way worse than Kisu, and will "remove" all non-Humans from Cantha, thus including Nagas.
It would not surprise me that those who would not flee would get killed, and it would be quite hard to build a civilisation from the remains of their remains...

theyll live under the island in that cave you can see if you look off the side of the mountains. Or no doubt this will be a place to hide if they include cantha

Sirius-NZ · Jun 10, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

There's still the "subject to change" provision. No guarantee we won't go back to Cantha and find some kind of a non-human "resistance" there that in fact Usoku never quite could get rid of. Along with, possibly, humans who are disgruntled with the oppressive regime that's been running the last few hundred years or so.

I wouldn't write the Naga off - they could also have fled - but at the same time I can't put them in the "yeah we'll definitely see more of these guys" basket.

BenjZee · Jun 10, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

i go for the non uber lookin ones, thats why i went monk and not warrior. Asura/slyvari instead of norn or char. I just hope the advantages they have dont mean players being force to be certain types.
eg: Asuras must be ellys